Seth 345
You Are The Engine of Change
Tuesday Sept 11, 2007
8:22 p.m.
Seth… Good evening, pleasure to have all of you this evening. In terms of some slight housekeeping procedures that I would like to deal with, first, when Shirley Sarah is available, please tell her I congratulate her on her efforts to make some changes in her existence. (Shirly Sarah is Jerry’s mother.) She did very well, all things considered. Second Isabella…
Isabella… I thought I was off the hook.
Seth… Would you please to be kind enough to change seats with Kaetorina at this point?
Isabella… (Stephanie, I believe was mumbling about hating to change.) Is there a reason?
Seth… Because I asked you to; is that a good enough reason?
Stephanie… This is about change.
Isabella… Oh, we are changing…
Seth… Jasmine, please change seats with Shanna.
Stephanie… Winds of change. (Back and forth chit chat.)
Frank… Did you want to change with me? (Stephanie laughing.).
Seth… No, I believe at this point you can stay with your… you have enough problems walking. (Frank laughs and comments about not having to deal with change.) You do not have to deal with that at all.
Stephanie… I’m very out of sorts. That’s all I have to say.
Jasmine… This is the first of change…
Seth… No, this is a change for as long as I tell you to do this, this is a change.
Isabella… I kind of like it over here.
Shanna… Hey Frank! (Laughs.)
Seth… Now, obviously we are speaking about Change. To put this simply, Change is one of the major driving forces that the universe provides to the physical plane. The human condition is marked by the appearance of different factors that allows one to freely accept or reject any set of circumstances. Most individuals have great difficulty as evidenced by Kaetorina’s dis-ease. All of you have incidents that may be classified as simple or difficult. One must be aware that there is no hardship too great, no problem too difficult, no pleasure so intense…
Jasmine… Slow down a minute… Go on.
Seth… that it cannot be overcomed. One of course must learn to trust in themselves. Your ability to accept change is not dependent on anything but self. That which you decide is acceptable is accomplished with ease. That which you find difficult is often let go and must be restudied/relearned at a later point of reference. At this point I would like Jasmine, Kaetorina to please change seats. I would like Frank and Isabella to please change seats. (Everyone did so.)
Now that we have made another slight change when noted for some the change was relatively simple and for others even the idea of simply moving a seat became problematical and resentful. (Stephanie giggled.).
I am aware. Don’t think I am letting you go yet. (I believe towards Stephanie.)
Change itself gives one the impetus to create something that will assist you in your day to day endeavors.
Isabella… Can you give an example?
Seth… The simplest one I can give you is what do you do every morning before you leave your domicile?
Isabella… Ah, shower.
Seth… Not specific enough. What do you do right before you leave?
Isabella… The house? Ah, I make sure that I have everything that I need.
Seth… No. There’s something else much more important.
Isabella… Make my breakfast?
Seth… More important.
Isabella… Kiss the dog goodbye?
Seth… More important.
Isabella… Make sure that I have my keys.
Seth… More important.
Isabella… Ah… put clothing on?
Seth… No.
Isabella… I don’t know.
Seth… What do you check? I’ll give you a hint.
Jasmine… Check the lock?
Isabella… No, I never check the door. That the lights are off?
Seth… No.
Isabella… Check that I have my lunch?
Seth… No. (Stephanie giggles.)
Shanna… Cell phone?
Isabella… Check that I have my phone?
Seth… No.
Isabella… I have no idea.
Seth… Oh, you do something quite routinely.
Shanna… This just to her?
Seth… To her.
Stephanie… Oh.
Isabella… I have no idea.
Seth… Oh, let me put it this way, I’ll give you another hint.
Isabella… Yeah?
Seth… Television.
Isabella… Oh, I check the traffic.
Seth… Ah, you check the traffic! Well, why do you check the traffic? (There is some chuckling.)
Shanna… To know what it is going to be like.
Isabella… Because, no, because sometimes there’s an accident. I don’t want to go that way.
Seth… Ah! And so, if there is an accident, you are willing to?
Isabella… Change.
Seth… Is not the idea of Change here an impetus or an incentive if you will for you to do something that is effectively profitable for you?
Isabella… Absolutely.
Seth… Therefore, what was my statement before your question?
Isabella… Change itself gives one the impetus to create something that will assist you in your day to day endeavors.
Seth… Therefore, out of necessity since you choose not to be late to work you choose the process of change or give yourself the ability to change if necessary…
Isabella… Right.
Seth… to allow yourself the luxury of being where you said you would be.
Isabella… Right.
Seth… If one only desires routine one stagnates in their ability to perceive anything else but the ordinary. It is important to note that change does not mean that you as an individual have the ability to cause someone else to make permanent changes if you will in their own lifestyle or viewpoint. What often happens is a fact that you take on the other’s difficulties since their changes do not suit you. When one does this one often finds a discrepancy between that which you perceive and that which the other individual desires. Quite often this causes trauma to both parties! The question arises, when can one offer advice to another about change? The answer is simple, when the other individual either by word or deed or reference has suggested to you that they are in need of assistance.
Let us make even a more difficult example here. Let us assume that in out hypothetical example that you see someone making an error that you know will cause them great difficulty. When should you assist them in making a change that will be beneficial to them? The answer is simple. The simplest idea here is to ask a question and that question may be phrased in any number of ways, one of the easiest is simply this: Are you aware that you are possibly making an error in judgment. Period. Now the reason why I have emphasized the idea of ending a sentence here with a period, writing the word period and then putting another period is simply this, I want to demonstrate to all of you that it is far easier to go ahead and give unnecessary information to an individual who does not choose to receive it. What they perceive…
Jasmine… To give unwanted information?
Seth… Unnecessary. Unnecessary information means that they choose not to listen.
Jasmine… Someone who isn’t listening?
Seth… They choose not to listen, that is correct. You’ve already stated that they might be making a mistake. If you continue with the idea of trying to force information on individuals who cannot or will not hear they become angry and resentful and usually an explosion occurs. Evidence of this may be seen in two examples. Kaetorina knows too well what happens when you force patients to listen. Her shaking of her head and her smile is an indication that she tried to force a therapeutic patient into listening which failed miserably. And the second reference point here is a simplistic incident that occurred last evening. I believe that both Jasmine and Isabella are very aware of the explosive nature of their confrontation last evening. A word of thanks to me by both parties will eventually be appreciated, not that I mind even if you don’t for the information that I relayed to the man through whom I speak was certainly beneficial in at least allowing both of you to vent your frustrations one to the other. Don’t think he was that smart to come up with that all by himself? You can tell him I said so.
So, change itself encompasses all that surround you. One of the ideas that I would like to bring forth is that one must anticipate the good. This idea of anticipating the good goes contrary to a great many of you and your viewpoints that surround your day to day existence. One commonly anticipates problems, one will worry about them, one will mull them over. One will have these imaginary difficulties affect your entire existence and therefore, give us a moment, you become so mired down with the weight of change that your viewpoints become narrowed and your ability to anticipate that which is positive becomes diminished in your own eyes. References such as how can this turn out well are symptomatic of fear of change. One of the primary ways that each of you must adapt to your own living methods is the idea that you are an engine of change. You have the ability to promote the good. Fear and anxiety are all futuristic based problems that at your level of ability cannot be understood or properly accounted for. When changes become necessary the change occurs in many different directions. Obviously, your present is changed but of all things that change is perhaps the least significant.
Isabella… What is the least significant?
Seth… The present. Your past leads to you where you are on now.
Jasmine… Hold on.
Seth… Your past leads you to where you are now! When you change your now by definition you must have changed your past.
Isabella… Can you explain that? You always say that and it doesn’t register with me. I don’t really understand how your past changes when you change your now.
Jasmine… Is the now the same as the present?
Seth… The now is the present.
Jasmine… Because you said, when change is necessary the change occurs in many different directions. Obviously, your present is changed but it is the least significant.
Seth… That is the now. You live in the now.
Jasmine… Your past leads you to where…
Seth… Where you are now. In other words…
Jasmine… So, the present is the… significant.
Seth… Excuse me, is the least portion of the significant aspect of change.
Frank… Oh.
Seth… Now, let us assume that when you were working towards your tenured position you did not learn your lesson. So, what happened when you were due for tenure?
Isabella… I didn’t get it.
Seth… And that affected your now.
Isabella… Obviously.
Seth… Therefore, you then went ahead and changed your ideas about the now and when you change your ideas about your now your past forced you to change because you moved in certain line.
Isabella… Right.
Seth… Therefore, your future and I am coming to this in a minute will lead you in a different direction. What happened when you changed your past and your now? What happened to you?
Isabella… Well, I didn’t change the past.
Seth… Yes, you did.
Isabella… I used the past to help change the now.
Seth… Then you changed the past once you change the now it works in both directions. You cannot change the now without your perceptions of the past helping you change.
Isabella… So, could we use the example of my getting divorced as a change?
Seth… Of course.
Isabella… Because that’s a big change.
Seth… Correct.
Isabella… So… help out here.
Seth… It’s very simple. If you decide to become involved in a long-term relationship now…
Isabella… Right.
Seth… Have you then changed your past? No! Because you will still make the same errors.
Isabella… Okay.
Seth… Then you re-correct your now making changes in your personality.
Isabella… Emm.
Seth… Would your then past now lead you towards a different direction in the future?
Isabella… Yeah, obviously.
Seth… Therefore, the now is the least significant portion of the change. It allows you to move forward meaning in linear ideas towards the future so that your future past is different from what it would be because your past led you to a different position of understanding now by learning from that, therefore it changed. Your now then changes which leads you to a different future.
Isabella… That I, I understand that. I understand the now changing leads you to a different future. The past is still the past! (Seth speaking.) The past still happened the way it happened. It didn’t change.
Seth… Of course, it changed. The past always changes, not that you forget it but it becomes less significant to you.
Isabella… Or you look at it differently.
Seth… That’s a change.
Isabella… You look at the event differently.
Seth… Correct.
Isabella… So that’s how it changes.
Jasmine… And you are different from what you were in the past.
Seth… Correct, therefore your past is changed, your now is changing in the process thereof and your future must be different.
Isabella… Right, I understand.
Seth… So, the path that you were on to walk down Street B knowing where you will be mugged or in your question, have another marriage and lead to a divorce, again, will be different if you learn to change your past ideas. What you look for in a mate, what you desire in a mate, what you see in someone else that changes. And when that changes your present of course is different since you have learned and then you move on in a different direction. So, in other words if you were a timeline studier…
Isabella… Em hmm.
Seth… time would be this way under one principle…
Isabella… Right.
Seth… Now that if you have changed your past here and you go this way you are on a different timeline.
Isabella… Right.
Seth… So, your future is different.
Isabella… Correct?
Seth… If you then go ahead and change your past but make no changes here you come back to where you are and you end up in the same place. Just because you are aware of something which is the last example, I just gave you but do not use that which you are aware of to become a different person in the future your present is still the same and you end up where you would have been anyway.
Isabella… Em hmm.
Seth… Do you understand? It is a relatively simplistic idea, (Isabella begins talking.) It is a relatively simplistic idea when you do not look at linear time but vertically.
Isabella… Em hmm, I understand that. But when you look at when you’re changing and you feel yourself changing then do you…
Seth… It’s a delusional fact. Most of the time for most individuals…
Isabella… Right.
Seth… it is delusion.
Isabella… Alright, I don’t feel in my case it is delusional.
Seth… I’m not… You may feel anything that you choose to feel and I am not going to open that up for discussion. You feel what you believe…
Isabella… Em hmm.
Seth… I am telling you what is factual. Most people delude themselves into believing that they are making changes. Most are not true.
Isabella… That’s so, but that’s so depressing that most people don’t really ever change. I mean how encouraging is that?
Frank… He didn’t say that.
Seth… I did not state that.
Isabella… But that’s basically what, I mean in not so many words that is what you are saying about me that I am deluding myself into feeling I’m…
Seth… I have not mentioned you at all. If you would like to look at it in that way that is of course your ability to do so but I have not mentioned you at all.
Isabella… Okay.
Seth… If you are taking it that way then obviously you identify with something that I stated.
Isabella… No, I just…
Seth… Obviously…
Isabella… thought you were talking to me.
Seth… You asked a question and I gave you a very general answer. If you identify with that answer…
Isabella… I don’t identify with it that’s why I’m upset about it.
Seth… Then therefore if you are upset about it you do identify with it.
Isabella… No. (Said softly.)
Jasmine… Can I ask a question? In Isabella’s case for example, she feels she is making changes but you mentioned the long-term relationship part. So, someone who goes from one long term relationship directly into another long-term relationship maybe deluding themselves that they are making changes when they are not? Is that what you are saying?
Seth… It certainly may be possible. For example, what is likelihood of an individual who is married here, divorced here, married here getting another divorce?
Jasmine… Very high.
Seth… Do you know why that occurs?
Jasmine… Because they haven’t changed themselves.
Seth… They’ve made no ability to…
Jasmine… Within self.
Seth… within the idea of learning from the past to change their now so that their future may be different. That is why these things occur. And the object is you either will or will not view this as what it is.
Frank… Did you say in the middle of that, that the future helps you change the present?
Seth… No.
Frank… So no, okay.
Seth… Although it can but it is for a more advanced individual then you are.
Frank… Why is the future more…
Seth… Because everything is fluid. Remember, you are looking at the idea of something like a ruler, one, two, three, four, five…
Frank… Em hmm.
Seth… If one does not look at that way but one views it as a spindle…
Frank… Yes, I understand.
Seth… from here you may gather information from higher up to change it lower down. That is how the future changes the present which changes the past depending upon what you draw upon in that vertical situation where everything has happened, will happen and can happen is happening now.
Frank… Is there a way…
Seth… Not for you.
Frank… Hmm, that’s not the question I…
Seth… Go ahead.
Frank… Okay, (Stephanie giggled.) Is there a way to explain to others how change works if they don’t have this sense of past, future and present?
Seth… There is not an individual who has ever existed on the physical plane that does not have a sense of past, present and future. I would like to meet that individual and so would you.
Frank… (Stephanie saying something about using different language at the same time.) I don’t think that was my question.
Seth… That is exactly, you said a person who doesn’t have a sense of past, present and future.
Frank… Doesn’t have the sense that their past changes? Do they just say that…
Seth… If you are a different person today, did you not make a change today that tomorrow you would look back on and say I am a different person today then I was yesterday?
Frank… Em hmm.
Seth… Therefore, your past has changed and your present is different, your future will of course be different. Do you understand?
Frank… I understand the concept for myself; is it enough to explain it?
Seth… One must again anticipate the positive aspects of change. Write this down. One must anticipate the positive aspects of change. Do not fear that which you do not know. Do not anticipate problems. Anticipate success. Bring to yourself that which you desire.
Frank… If you’re fearing change and you are expecting it to be negative you are going to tend to draw that towards you?
Seth… Absolutely correct.
Jasmine… What was the last thing you said, Anticipate success?
Isabella… Bring to yourself that which you desire.
Seth… And underline the words “that which you desire” .
Stephanie… What makes for the difference between a person who let’s say marries the same type of person, you know over and over rather then the person who, what…
Seth… Fear of being different.
Stephanie… Alright but what gave the other person the ability to look for a different first guy type of guy?
Seth… The dislike of that which is.
Stephanie… Right but the first person knows that they disliked it.
Seth… That does not mean anything. You are assuming that just because I do not like chocolate ice cream and the only ice cream, I can eat is chocolate will I eat it? And the answer is most probably, yes.
Stephanie… Because the first person thinks that is the only ice cream available to them?
Seth… Correct.
Stephanie… Oh. Okay.
Seth… Do you understand?
Stephanie… Right so the second person realized there were choices.
Seth… I may have vanilla, I may have strawberry, I may have rocky road, I may have coffee.
Stephanie… But what made this…
Seth… All organic of course.
Stephanie… What made the first person though change into the second? What made the second person capable of moving from the first to the second to notice there are other ideas?
Seth… Lack of fear, anticipating the good; one brings to themselves that which is positive if one looks in that direction. When one has fear, when one is upset, when one becomes obsessed with self or others one brings to themselves that which they do not need, meaning want.
Stephanie… Right so if a person who got divorced is afraid, they’re never going to meet somebody they may settle with the next person that comes along.
Seth… And they do.
Stephanie… Fear of that.
Seth… And that is why the divorce rate among second marriages is higher than the first.
Stephanie… Em hmm, right, that makes sense.
Seth… I believe at this point we shall take a break and after the break please assume your original seats.
(There was conversation that was not caught on tape between Isabella and Stephanie and perhaps others. Apparently, it was about what makes someone a boyfriend.)
Seth… Let me interject an idea into this conversation. If it were at all possible for each of you at this moment to have an out of body experience to go to the plane of existence which you normally inhabit you would find that what you have been speaking about has judgmental qualities that have been assigned to it. Now, the judgmental qualities have both aspects, there is of course on one side Isabella’s judgmental feelings about what she is doing; then of course there are the judgmental aspects of what the others are saying. The difficulty with conversations of this nature are due to the fact that when judgmental values are used pain and suffering occur so my answer is simply this: One must learn that in these situations a nonjudgmental attitude must be adopted. Now this can occur and should occur routinely since no effective change is ever measured when judgment and their values are weighed and measured against an idea or situation.
Jasmine… Could you say that again? No effective change…
Seth… No effective change occurs or can occur…
Jasmine… Right.
Seth… when judgmental systems or values are weighed and measured against an idea.
Stephanie… Isn’t it true that when you have a back and forth about when someone says you know, no I am doing this whatever and then you start to have a litany of examples of the opposite that it is just futile? I mean that’s the idea of why bother? I mean somebody has a conviction about something you are not going to change somebody else’s view.
Seth… I’ve covered the idea of changing somebody’s view earlier in this evening’s lecture.
Stephanie… So, what you, how do you…
Seth… What you have all adopted if you will is the simple situation that I am right and that you are incorrect. And the difficulty here is that none of you are right and none of you are correct and what you should do…
Jasmine… None are right and none are wrong?
Seth… No not correct, wrong has a different connotation that I do not want to…
Jasmine… None are right and… (Said at the same time as Seth.)
Seth… and none are correct.
Jasmine… are correct it’s the same thing.
Seth… No, it is really not the same idea that I am trying to impart here, Jasmine. When none are right meaning that there is an error somewhere and when none are correct meaning self means that you may have to learn to be open to something else. Wrong in this instance implies something that I do not want it to. In other words, if you are right then that person must be incorrect. I am trying to give you an idea of a nonjudgmental way, a non-right wrong, good bad, up down situation. For in different levels of existence right wrong never occurs. IT IS THE DECSION THAT MATTERS and write that down in capital letters and underline it. It Is The Decision That Matters. One must never on higher planes even to venture the thought you are wrong. The question always occurs is: please explain to me that decision.
Jasmine… Only on higher planes or here?
Seth… On higher planes there is no right or wrong. Here one says, you made an error, you did not do that well, your test mark was only 80 and it should have been 90.
Stephanie… So, in other words if Isabella was saying I am not in a serious relationship, he is not my boyfriend, I would say, please explain to me how you think it’s not…
Seth… What is your definition of a boyfriend? What is your definition of the relationship that you are in?
Stephanie… That would be the questioning?
Seth… That is the only question that one may ask.
Stephanie… Right, first one has to define it in order to know what they are doing.
Seth… Well, if you understand the definition thereof you may either agree with it or disagree with it, you may modify it or you may not modify it.
Isabella… Now, can we each have different definitions of what we believe it is?
Seth… Do you not think that is change?
Isabella… That is change.
Seth… I do not have a problem with that idea.
Isabella… Because my definition of what a boyfriend was five years ago is vastly different then what I think a boyfriend is now.
Seth… Do you now understand that your question earlier this evening…
Isabella… Yes.
Seth… has now been redefined by you?
Isabella… Yes, in their opinion they feel that George is a boyfriend; I don’t view him that way. In my state of mind…
Seth… What, excuse me, not your state of mind?
Isabella… In my life…
Seth… I would like to understand…
Isabella… Uh huh.
Seth… what your definition…
Isabella… Of what a boyfriend is?
Seth… Correct.
Isabella… My definition of a boyfriend is someone that I speak to and not text everyday that we talk about each other days, that we literally are not seeing anybody else, that we are exclusive with one another. That is my definition of a boyfriend, someone that I, you know do everything with and that kind of thing. That is my definition of a boyfriend.
Seth… Please explain to me your idea of exclusivity?
Isabella… Exclusivity is not seeing other people. Not dating other people.
Seth… Explain to me your idea the definition of being closed to.
Isabella… Being closed to? Not opening up.
Seth… What does that mean please?
Isabella… Not allowing yourself to open up to somebody else.
Seth… Understand that in all your definitions I agree with. The only one that you truly have difficulty with is the last one.
Isabella… In being open upped meaning for me?
Seth… Because you are comfortable here… (Index finger touching table.)
Isabella… Right.
Seth… which makes difficulty there.
Isabella… But that doesn’t necessary mean that if I met somebody, I wouldn’t be open meeting them.
Seth… I am not… we’re not working in that area.
Isabella… Right.
Seth… I am just simply stating that which you have defined…
Isabella… Okay.
Seth… that which you are. I am not criticizing; I certainly do not care and I certainly do not judge.
Isabella… I didn’t say anything in my definition about being closed. I said…
Seth… Your implication therein is that which you do and my words were very carefully weighed and measured…
Isabella… I don’t understand.
Seth… My words were carefully phrased in all my questions to you to lead you to the idea and possibility that your being truly open to others in your existence…
Isabella… Right.
Seth… since you are comfortable here is limited there.
Isabella… Okay but I…
Seth… That’s all I am saying, nothing more. Do not add anything into my words other then what I am saying.
Isabella… I’m not adding I am just saying I am not, not open.
Seth… I am not suggesting that you are, I am not suggesting that you’re not, I am simply stating that your actions at this point of reference indicate that your tendency is to become very comfortable and therefore your allowing yourself to perceive differently becomes limited.
Isabella… Okay.
Seth… That is all I am stating and it is not correct, it is not incorrect, it is just a thing, nothing more, nothing less. I have told you…
Isabella… Em hmm.
Seth… that in my opinion which is far better than anyone’s here that your object here is to enjoy yourself and to have fun.
Isabella… Em hmm.
Seth… And by having fun I would like you to learn to be more open and that is the end of my portion of this.
So, the answer here is that change itself should never be a judgmental value system.
Stephanie… I have a question. Where does it come into play the idea of enlightenment when you think, when you feel somebody may be in a tunnel where would it come in the idea of somebody assisting with enlightenment in terms of open/closed? Is that just a delusion that you can enlighten someone?
Seth… What did I state earlier? Do you remember the earlier portion of this lecture on the same question?
Jasmine… (Whispering.) Can’t remember.
Stephanie… In terms of the idea of change and making somebody see something.
Seth… You may go ahead and as a teacher offer information, I’ll rephrase this in a different way…
Stephanie… Right.
Seth… When you are rephrasing something and you ask the simplest of all questions; I believe you are making an error in judgment.
Stephanie… Em hmm.
Seth… Are you interested in why I feel that way? And if they say yes, fine and if they say no, fine. I have changed my words here to give you pause to think.
Stephanie… Alright and let’s say they say yes.
Seth… Then you must say this is what I see from my vantage point that you are doing.
Stephanie… Okay and…
Seth… That’s it, it’s not judgmental, it is what your perceptions are.
Stephanie… Okay.
Seth… That does not make them correct, it does not make them incorrect.
Stephanie… Right so if they say well, I don’t feel that way…
Seth… That is fine.
Stephanie… it is just this and then it’s the end of it.
Seth… That is the end of it because it is the end of it because the idea is you cannot force someone else to adopt your viewpoint. If someone at a reasonable age decides to close their eyes and walk across the street no matter what you tell them that you know this is busy street, there are many cars coming and you could be hit and killed if you do this. Are you aware of that? Yes, but I don’t believe it is going to happen to me. What can you do about it? They are going to close their eyes anyway. And so that is not what you are dealing with. You can only present information in a way in which someone either can nonjudgmentally accept it and ask for further assistance as to why you believe this or they can say I’m sorry I see this differently; I appreciate your viewpoint but I am going to do it my own way and if I make a mistake that’s my mistake. You cannot take on somebody else’s problems and make them your own. You cannot take somebody else’s problems and make them your own no matter how serious a mistake you believe that they are making because you are then judging them. And you cannot have change when somebody judges you. Change is by itself your choice.
Jasmine… But you still can enlighten them if it is okay with that person.
Seth… If they choose to hear you may give a three-hour explanation as to why you feel that way.
Stephanie… That’s the why the idea of waiting for someone to ask for assistance is so important because you know they are closed if they are not asking.
Seth… Correct. They don’t care.
Stephanie… They don’t care so they are not interested in changing anyway or the idea of it so that’s why…
Seth… Once again, if you were going to cross the street and say I am going to close my eyes and walk across the street and I say to you, you are a very important individual to me, I do not want you to get hurt and I think that you should open your eyes and take stock of what you see around you because I care that much about you. And you say to me I am so glad you care that much about me but I am going to close my eyes and walk across the street because that’s the way I’ve always did it. What can you do?
Stephanie… Right, nothing.
Seth… That’s the answer that must suffice. That is nonjudgmental. The person who is walking across the street with their eyes closed may in anyone’s definition be foolish but that does not mean that that they do not have a right to do that. Do you understand?
Isabella… I understand clearly.
Shanna… So, when you take on someone else’s problems you automatically becoming judgmental?
Seth… Absolutely.
Shanna… So how do you not get involved with someone else’s problems?
Seth… By understanding it is their problem. For example, if your husband came home tomorrow and said I am not interested in working, I’m going to go surfing routinely seven days a week. You have a number of choices, you going to say, look we need the money to live, we have to do this, we have to have food on the table, we have rent to meet, we have insurance needs, we have a car, we need gas. And he says I don’t care about that; I’m going to go surfing seven days a week and it is up to you to provide for me.
Shanna… Uh huh.
Seth… What are your then choices without becoming judgmental?
Shanna… Without becoming judgmental?
Seth… Correct.
Shanna… I could ask him if he wants my opinion on the consequences. (Some giggling.)
Seth… No, I do not want your opinion on this; this is what I am going to do.
Shanna… So, then I have to promote myself and do what I need to do not to be dragged down by him.
Seth… That’s correct. Do you see how promoting one’s self in a very serious situation is vastly different then saying you have to work, you have to do this, you have to do this because we have a problem, we have difficulties, you’re not helping.
Isabella… So, then what would she do in order to… in order to…
Seth… If she was going to put, she could do one of two things that are logical here. One, she could say I will support us as the best I can if we cannot do anything else that is okay with me because I love you or she could say I’m sorry I cannot tolerate your behavior, you are entitled to do what you choose to do but understand I am moving out and I will have to divorce you. Again, that is not a judgmental factor. It is what somebody needs to do to promote themselves.
Shanna… And in like situations like with teaching with parents you know when you are giving them information about their children and they might not be following that but you must let go because…
Seth… The most you can do is to say, in my opinion as a teacher your child needs to be tested, your child requires additional help for the following reasons and you document whatever those reasons are.
Shanna… Right and they choose not…
Seth… What can you do? Can you force…
Shanna… How do you like, how can I teach myself in letting go of those type of situations?
Seth… Because you can’t change them. What can you do?
Shanna… Can I tell myself I can’t change it and let it go?
Seth… Why don’t you ask if it bothers you? (Betty’s telephone was making a good deal of noise.)
Stephanie… Betty, are you eating pop corn?
Betty… Sorry. Just… (Betty laughs, group laughs.)
Frank… You’re brushing your teeth, aren’t you? (Laughs.)
Stephanie… (Betty said something and the noise stopped.) Thank you.
Seth… Do you understand?
Shanna… Uh huh.
Seth… It’s not a question of you leaving go, it’s a question of you understanding. Can you force a parent to assist a child when they choose not to see what your eyes see?
Shanna… No, that’s the frustrating part.
Seth… It’s not frustrating, you’re judging them.
Shanna… So, when I become frustrated, I’m judging?
Seth… Absolutely. Are you not?
Isabella… Shocked. (Whispered in a conspiratorial tone, Stephanie laughs.)
Seth… Are you not?
Shanna… Yes.
Frank… But Seth, if in your judgment feel that that child is going to be hurt…
Seth… Then whose responsibility…
Frank… then would you not be frustrated?
Seth… Then whose responsibility… If a child is being injured because the child has no ability to protect them self, what is your responsibility?
Frank… Report it.
Seth… Correct.
Frank… Yeah, there are degrees of injury that you can know something, from experience you can know down the road that this is going to be a disadvantage for this person…
Seth… And you then…
Frank… and you can’t report it!
Seth… You may certainly to a higher authority with the school situation. Be aware this is what is happening.
Frank… And they’ll say that’s a shame.
Isabella… It’s the parent’s choice.
Seth… And that’s as far as it can go.
Frank… Right.
Isabella… It’s the parent’s fault for screwing up their child.
Frank… I think my only point is that it’s acceptable to feel frustrated but then you obviously have to move on. And it’s a disappointment.
Seth… There are many disappointments in human existence. Things do not work out as you would like them to.
Frank… Right.
Isabella… Doesn’t it make disappointment your judgment? Because…
Seth… No, you disappointed at a situation, when you are disappointed and angry at someone else you are judging them.
Shanna… Okay if you are disappointed because a parent is not following through on something you are not judging?
Seth… You’re not judging them you are just disappointed. When you say, boy are they stupid, then you’re judging them.
Frank… Right.
Isabella… Can I ask a question about, off topic a dream? I’ve been having some pretty bizarre dreams lately.
Seth… You are understanding the reasons why.
Isabella… Because I am doing a lot of internal work, obviously.
Seth… Correct.
Isabella… But one dream I had was about Krypto, (Her dog.) I have a few things I that I want to ask about few different dreams but… One dream I have is about Krypto and I was watching her and she was breathing heavily, panting, her tongue fell literally out of her mouth on to the floor and I was curious as to if you could interpret what that meant?
Seth… Basically, what it is, is again a fear of loss because if tongue fell out and she is panting she’s dying and therefore it is a fear of loss.
Seth… Is there anything else under those type of questions?
Frank… We’re on to questions?
Stephanie… What about in terms of a patient, this type of scenario where I have a patient whose wife is pretty much definitely having an affair and he knows this but doesn’t really want to know but knows it. But he you know has difficulty taking any action around it…
Seth… Why does he have to take action?
Stephanie… Well because he is miserable and feels horrible…
Seth… Then you ask a simple question, if you are miserable and you are feeling terrible what do you think would make you feel better?
Stephanie… Right, he’s afraid to make those kinds of changes.
Seth… Then why does he have to make those type of changes? If he is willing to accept feeling miserable and horrible, please tell him that it is perfectly acceptable to you and you will handle his miserable and horrible feelings as best you can.
Stephanie… So essentially if he refuses to make changes that’s what our sessions would be over and over again?
Seth… Why are you accepting this? Because I can’t make a change right now. That’s perfectly acceptable to me. What can we do to make your feelings so badly less difficult for you to handle assuming you don’t want to make changes?
Stephanie… What can we do to help him to feel better you mean?
Seth… Correct, and he has to come up with a solution not you.
Stephanie… Right so he’s, we’ve talked about how he promotes himself, this, that and he’s told me today he’s going to, he’s taking classes because he always wanted to be a dentist.
Seth… I think that’s a wonderful thought.
Stephanie… Yeah, we talked about how else could he promote himself, clearly, he is too afraid to leave the house and really confront and do things. So as long as he promotes himself consistently here it will end up filtering down somehow there, right? Because he’s going to get stronger…
Seth… Correct.
Stephanie… and if he could stay and do that for himself, okay. But what my question I was talking to Jerry about this, when a patient all of sudden knows that the therapist is aware of a problem that the client continues to promote how would the client not worry about the therapist being judgmental or feeling embarrassed about…
Seth… I have a question for you.
Stephanie… What?
Seth… Did we not just speak on the idea of judgments and if you… can you describe what being nonjudgmental is?
Stephanie… I know what being nonjudgmental would be but if we discussed the situation. Let’s just use this patient, he knows that I know and he knows that he knows that his wife is having an affair and we have discussed what to so this, that and the other. You know maybe it varies with different clients how…
Seth… Do you have to constantly bring up the fact that his wife is having an affair unless he does?
Stephanie… Right, no.
Seth… Then you are not being judgmental, you are saying okay she’s having an affair. If you would like to talk about it fine if you don’t want to fine and we will move along to something else. You say it once and you don’t bring it up until he does.
Stephanie… Em hmm, so okay so if I just start session with what’s going on what’s doing, he says nothing much.
Seth… Okay. Stephanie laughs. If there is nothing much going on, what have you done to promote yourself this week?
Stephanie… Right, which is actually…
Seth… How is your week becoming better?
Stephanie… That’s how I actually started; how did you promote yourself.
Seth… And what happened?
Stephanie… Well, he says, I guess I didn’t do much of that. (Stephanie laughs.)
Seth… And can I ask why you didn’t?
Stephanie… And then he would say that’s a good question. (Laughing.)
Seth… And you would say well not only is a good question but how about thinking about the fact tht you chose to do nothing instead of helping yourself?
Stephanie… Right, the idea of reflecting, but just in that question do clients and would they feel have a sense of humiliation that I’m…
Seth… That’s always an unknown. You can say to somebody how do you feel and that maybe a sense of humiliation if that person…
Stephanie… Chooses to see it tht way you mean?
Seth… Of course.
Stephanie… So, it just really varies.
Seth… It’s not a question of varies it is a question of perception.
Stephanie… Right, that’s what I am saying it varies upon different clients…
Seth… Correct.
Stephanie… they might perceive that someone else may not.
Seth… Correct.
Stephanie… So, there is not real way of avoiding that?
Seth… The only way that you can avoid anything is not to be judgmental. To allow anyone the luxury of saying well if you like to look at it that way that is your choice, I have a different opinion.
Stephanie… Em hmm. And do you think it would be profitable for me to actually state the words, “I am not meaning to be judgmental here with this…”
Seth… Not “here” I am never judgmental because what you choose to do is what you choose to do.
Stephanie… Em hmm, because you know how clients feel like as if they have to perform for you.
Seth… Of course, and the idea is not to get them to be performing.
Stephanie… Right.
Seth… It would be for example as me turning for what ever reason I could possibly have turning to Shanna and saying by the way how do you feel about the fact that your husband George is having two affairs? Well, she might not like the idea at all or she might not care. Obviously, he is not having two affairs. (Shanna laughing.)
Shanna… (Said softly,) Oh, my god I am done for.
Seth… Do you understand the principle here? I am one way judging because I say how do you feel that?
Stephanie… Right, right, right.
Seth… That’s the answer.
Stephanie… Right and the rest you have no control over, you do the best you can if they interpret it as judgmental or if they feel embarrassed or…
Seth… If they are embarrassed and is embarrassment a bad idea?
Stephanie… No, but it is if they don’t express it and you can’t work it…
Seth… Are you embarrassed?
Stephanie… You mean just, I need to be able to ask?
Seth… Are you embarrassed about the fact that your wife is having an affair?
Jasmine… And you are not doing anything about it?
Seth… No! That’s judging.
Stephanie… That would be judging.
Seth… I don’t want you to give…
Stephanie… You have to be so careful, like it’s thinking about the words. (Stephanie is laughing and there is a lot of kidding and laughing among the group about being judgmental towards a client.)
It is difficult too because you feel for this person so much about the fact you know they are being so hurt, humiliated right in their face, you know. The wife is flagrant about it in so many different ways. You know and I’ve had to say, it doesn’t matter what I think. Do you think she’s having one? Bla, Bla bla.
Seth… Are there any other questions?
Shanna… Can I just ask a quick question?
Seth… You may ask me a slow question.
Shanna… It’s in regards to a really creepy dream with my dad that I can’t seem to shake and all it consisted of was me and him walking down a neighborhood street and he say’s to me, “I’m sure these houses are getting bigger and bigger.” And I said “No, they’re just small ones, we’ll find it eventually.” And the dream just likes resonates with me and I am not quite sure if there is a reason why.
Seth… The simplest idea is to look at the idea of a theme.
Shanna… Em hmm.
Seth… How often are you with your father?
Shanna… Not often. That’s…
Seth… You now have the answer to your dream.
Shanna… Just that I am missing him maybe.
Seth… Are there any other questions?
Let me leave you with this: Change itself promotes you as an individual. Change allows you to move in a positive direction assuming you appreciate and look for the positive nature of that which surrounds you; in doing so you fulfill your needs and desires. When you fear change you promote anxiety, worry and your wants become magnified. Accept change, relish at the prospect of being different. I bid you all a fond good evening.
(No time given for end of session.)